Additional Comment: Craske family

I have just published a new comment to the September 2006 notes about the Craske family (and others), from Cathy Bryant.

SC

Glemsford Brass Band

The Glemsford Brass Band does not occur very often in the written annals of the village's History, but those references that do occur provide fascinating glimpses:

• Richard Deeks has a picture of the Band in 1893 in the Introduction to "Glorious Glemsford";
• in "The Matmaker and the Magistrate", Richard describes the Band leading the marchers as they set off to Melford;
• he also describes the Band greeting Henry Cook back to the village after his trial;
• and, again, Henry Cook is described as inviting the Band to play outside his house at Christmas - http://www.glemsford.org.uk/2008_03_01_lhsarchive.html;
• in the correspondence between Minnie Brown and Mrs Savage, the Band is shown as not being universally welcomed (!);
• there is an oblique reference to the Perseverance Brass Band in the Board School Minutes;
• and there are references to the Band in the newspaper extracts held on the Foxearth site.

Now I have been approached by David Cawdell, of the Lexden History Group, who says:

I am a brass band historian and am researching the histories of 'lost' village brass bands in Suffolk.

In the 1900's there estimated to be around 20,000 brass bands in the UK; nearly every village had one, towns had several, cities had dozens. Today there are only about 2,000, so somewhere there must be an awful lot of instruments, and memories, tucked away in attics and cupboards.

The village brass band was an important element in the social and religious life of the village, playing at fetes, harvest festivals, Christmas carolling etc. and it is an aspect that, I feel, should be recorded in print for future generations of historians.

I have recently finished researching the histories of the 'lost' village bands in North Essex and have written up their history in a book entitled "Grandad played the Cornet". I would now like to do the same for village bands in Suffolk.

I believe that your village had a brass band ... . Any further details or photographs or the name of a local resident who could help in my research would be greatly appreciated.

I have already sent him details of what I know, but if anyone has any other information, however small or seemingly unimportant, perhaps you could let me know, and I will forward it to David.

SC

Brown and Savage Families

I have said many times how much interest and satisfaction I get from people being able to use these pages to help with their own interests.

A couple of years ago now, three of us put in a lot of very enjoyable work researching the link between the Savages of Cavendish (and their hotel "empire") and the Brown family of Glemsford, particularly Araminta, Martha, Gershom and Alva. That material starts (and becomes quite complex) here:
http://www.glemsford.org.uk/05brown.html

I was delighted therefore to receive this email from Debbie Watts in Bedfordshire:

I have recently started reseach on my family tree and discovered many from my mother's side came from the Cavendish/Glemsford area. So looking on the internet I discovered your website and noticed the section on the Browns and the Savages, in this article many of my ancestors were being mentioned and information I had found was being confirmed and elaborated.

This was an exciting find. My G-G-grandmother was the Mrs Elsey that is mentioned in the will of George Savage, George Savage was her next elder brother.

Mrs Elsey, Mary Ann Savage, had 7 children. Amelia and Beatrice (twins, B died at birth), Ernest, Sidney (my g-grandfather), George, Ida and Alexander that I have been able to trace.

Sidney and Ernest went into the Hotel business too and in the 1901 census they are listed as running a coffee house in Waterloo Rd. This was where my grandmother was born.

My grandmother in turn went on to work in the Hotel trade at the Savoy in London. Here she met my grandfather, Louis Saulnier, who was head chef at Frascatis Hotel, he wrote the book "Le Repertoire de la Cuisine" famed as the chef's bible.

... A big thankyou to the person/people who put in the hard work researching the Savages, it has certainly helped me to dot i's and cross t's!

Thanks, Debbie.

Debbie would be happy to hear from anyone with similar family research interests. As always, you can contact her by leaving a comment here, or by emailing me direct. I will pass on any contacts.

Steve Clarke

Brown Family and the Mysterious Mrs Frost

I have received this fascinating email and picture from Len Summerfield. If anyone can help, let me know and I will pass on contact details to Len.

I have attached a photo taken 1912 in Sudbury of:

Miss E. Wellington - born 1907 ... she became Mrs Ethel Summerfield, my mum.

Mrs F. Wellington - that is Flora Wellington nee Flora Gertrude Brown b. 1875 in Glemsford, married 1903 in Sherborne to William Thomas Wellington

Mrs S. Brown - Susan Brown nee Susan Ann Middleditch b. 1849 in Hawkedon. married in 1872 in Sudbury to Walter James Brown

Mrs Frost - I cannot work out who this person is ???????

The note on the back of the photo also says 'four eldest daughters'

I see from your note of 23 Nov 2006 that you are aware of Walter Brown and his family and their move from Glemsford to Sherborne and that Angela Russell is researching Walter James Brown's family.

Susan Middleditch's mother was Hannah Crack, father Henry Middleditch, so not her.

Walter's father was Charles Brown b c1822 and his mother was Sarah .....b. c1823 in Little Tey, Essex, so it may be her, but why would she have reverted back to 'Mrs. Frost'.

Any information or inspiration on identifying how Mrs Frost fits in would be much appreciated as I've run out of ideas.

Regards,

Len Summerfield

Arthur Rutter - Roll of Honour

Carol Hindle has contacted me:

Hi.

Does anybody have information on the Arthur Rutter shown on Roll of Honour killed in action 16th Sept 1916?

Is he the 2nd husband of Esther Ford nee Brown, can anybody tell me - married to her 6th November 1905?

Regards Carol

There were three Rutter families in Glemsford at the 1901 Census, on Angel Lane, Egremont Street and Chequers Lane, but Arthur does not appear in any of them.

If anyone has any clues for Carol, leave a comment here, or you can email them to my address and I will forward them.

SC

A Glemsford Diaspora? - Argent, Ambrose, Boreham ...

Barbara Barrett recently left this message as a comment about Nicole Nathan's search for the Argent family:

I have just discovered your very interesting site.I am researching our family tree and find that my husbands maternal grandfather was born in Glemsford -Walter Argent 1883 - Father James Argent 1847 - 11 Children, Sarah, Althea, Laura, Emma, Elizabeth, Kate, John, Mary, Willie, Nellie and Walter. They moved to live in Keighley, West Yorkshire. Is there anyone who can give me more information about Ray's family. He knows very little about his family history.Looking forward to hearing if anyone can help me put some "flesh on the bones" of my knowledge.

The moment I started looking at Barbara's Argent family on the Census, several familiar bells started ringing, all related to what I am convinced was a general movement of Glemsford families away from the village in the last quarter of the 19th Century.

1) Keighley: that was where Araminta Brown, who features so prominently in Sandra Poole and Tracey Foulds's story of the Brown and Savage family, settled and married.

2) The 1891 Census shows that James Argent and his family - including Walter - must have moved to Keighley between 1884 and 1886. My earlier work on the Glemsford School Log Books shows how depressed industry was in the village at the time.

3) James moved to Keighley as a Mat Weaver, although by 1901 he worked in a Machine Tool factory. Glemsford seems to have exported Mat Weavers to all parts of the country. I have located Browns, Argents and others in Skerton, Lancaster, Games and Brewsters in east London and now this group of Argents in Keighley.

But that's not all. The 1891 Census for 5 Cherry St., Keighley, shows the Argent family.
7 Cherry Street was occupied in the same Census by James and Ann Boreham. James was a Green Grocer.
Guess where he and Ann were born.
Give up?

Glemsford.

But all three of their children were born in Keighley. Eliza, the oldest, was 8 in 1891.
The 1901 Census shows James Boreham as a Coal dealer.
So we have another family of Glemsford emigres.

But it doesn't stop there.
A further exploration of Cherry Street in 1891 reveals that, at no. 38, lived the family of James and Harriet Ambrose (57 & 52). Both were born in Glemsford. James is recorded as a "Bobbin Sorter", presumably in Keighley's woollen industry, but in 1881 he had been a Mat Weaver on Egremont Street in Glemsford.
The ages and places of birth of their children suggests that James and Harriet also moved north round about 1885/6.

The Glemsford connection doesn't finish there, either. Also in 1891, at 8 Timber Street, lived Charles Ambrose (54), a general labourer, his wife Eliza (55), and three daughters - Lottie (20), Kate (17) and Emma (15).
Only Emma was Yorkshire-born: the rest of the family were born in Glemsford.
The 1881 Census also shows this family in Timber Street, with older children: Ann M (then 20), Susannah (16), Emily (14) and Walter (12), as well as a youngest child Eliza (3) who doesn't appear in 1891, since her death is recorded in Keighley in the June quarter of 1881.

Significantly, in 1881, Charles and Eliza had a boarder: James Boreham, an unmarried labourer in the Iron Works, born in Glemsford.
The Marriage registers for Keighley in the last quarter of 1881 show a marriage between James Boreham and Maria Ambrose.
Since Charles and Eliza's daughter Ann appears in the Census on two occasions as "Ann M.", I am making the obvious assumption. The name Boreham, of course, appears elsewhere in these pages, also in terms of a move northwards.

In 1871, Charles ("Cocoa Mat weaver") and Eliza were still in Glemsford, on Egremont Street, with their first five children, including Ann M..

And immediately next door lived James and Harriet Ambrose, with three of their children.

At the same time, James Boreham (15 - "Cocoa Nut Fibre Warper") was living with his parents, Benjamin and Susan, and siblings: Louisa, Jacob, Esau, Arthur, Dorcus, Mahala and Isaac, nephew Charles and niece Bertha, out at Seldom Field (sic).

I haven't yet been able to track James Ambrose in 1861, but Charles was, at the time of that Census, living with his parents, Samuel and Maria, and two sisters, Sophia and Emily. Interestingly, Maria and Sophia are both recorded as "Worsted Weavers".

The 1851 Census confirms matters, as both James (an agricultural labourer) and Charles (a labourer in a factory) were living at home on Skates Hill, with Samuel and Maria, their sisters and cousin, Maria Cooper.

Also in 1861, James Boreham was with his large family at Seldom Waiver. Ten years before, his father Benjamin, Susan, the early stages of their family, and Benjamin's mother Sarah were living on Egremont Street.

But what of the Keighley Argents?
We know where James and his family were in 1891 and 1901 - and incidentally, in 1901, Jame and Eliza had a boarder - Felix Chatters, a Gas Works labourer - from Cavendish!

The 1881 Census for Glemsford shows James Argent, a Mat Maker, aged 34, living with Eliza (34) on New Cut. With them were their children, Sarah, Aletha, Laura, Emma, Elizabeth, Kate, and John.

The 1871 Census is a little confusing in that James is referred to as "John J.", but I am confident this is our James with wife Eliza, and daughters Anna (5), Sarah (3) and Alethea (1). Eliza, Anna and Sarah were all born in Cavendish, and the 1881 Cavendish Census shows a 15 year old Cavendish-born Anne Argent working as a servant in the household of a butcher by the name of ... Edgar Ambrose.

The 1861 Census is proving a little unproductive at times, but the 1851 Census for Glemsford reveals John James Argent, the 4 year old son of John, a Hand Loom Silk Weaver, and Sarah, living next to the Silk Throwing Mill.

And so it goes ...

Yet again, therefore, there is a story of movement away from Glemsford at a time when life probably became hard. But how did they know where to go? How were jobs advertised? How did they travel?

Of course, if anyone has anything to add, please do not hesitate to get in touch. I think the Story of the Glemsford Diaspora is there to be written.

Travelling to Work: Glemsford to Sherborne

My interest in the migration of Glemsford people in the Nineteenth Century has been re-ignited by Angela Russell's research into the family of Walter James Brown.

He was married to Susan Ann Middleditch. Angela's research shows that they were mainly employed in the silk industry in Glemsford (although living in Sudbury).
Whereas Walter's brother George, and sister Joanna Maria (married to George Craske), by the 1901 census had moved their respective families to Eccles in Lancashire, Walter James moved his complete family of eight daughters and one son, sometime between 1891 and 1897, to Sherborne in Dorset.

Here in 1901 Walter is recorded as overlooker at the Silk factory and all his daughters were silk weavers.

Angela goes on to ask: did any other families move to Dorset? was the silk industry at Glemsford in decline then?

If there is anyone reading this who can shed light on this, and the silk industry in Sherborne in particular, please let us know.

And I would add other questions to those: how did ordinary factory workers find out that employment was available in other parts of the country? - how did they travel? - were the relatively-new railways a factor in making people more mobile? - did people like the Browns and Craskes travel with the intention of staying permanently? - how did they sort out accommodation?.

I know some of these questions seem naive, but I doubt whether we should treat the answers as taken for granted or, in any sense, obvious.

So: if anyone has anything else to add to the question of Suffolk migrants, please get in touch - whether with concrete evidence or simply family anecdote.

Steve Clarke

Travelling to work

I have become increasingingly fascinated by a particular aspect of the lives of Glemsford people, particularly in the later stages of the Nineteenth Century.

Perhaps it shouldn't surpise me, but I am always intrigued by the distances families moved away from the village, presumably in search of work.

People moving to London is almost expected many girls went to go into service, but recent researches and family hunts have shown Glemsford people turning up all over Suffolk, Essex, Cambridgeshire and Norfolk, but also in Lancashire - the Browns and Craskes in particular, in Yorkshire, and now in Dorset. Most times, it seems to be the working skills - weaving, for example - that have taken the family to their new homes.

My study of the school log books also shows a steady, if unspectacular, trickle of families out of the village.

Now here's a thought: such migration might make a fascinating study for someone.
I'd be delighted to hear from anyone who might follow up the idea.

Steve Clarke

Pearmans and Browns

Another contact with regard to a couple of the most enquired-about Glemsford families has arrived from Angela Russell.

Apart from other material on this page, Angela is referring to this page about the families.

I am really interested in the story of the William Pearman, I wonder if there is any information on Thomas and Hannah Brown the parents of Susan Brown.

I am researching a Thomas and Hannah Brown (nee Gridley) is it possible there is a link here?

I would be interested to hear from any one about this.

Thanks, Angela.

I know I keep saying it, but anyone can enter a direct comment here, or reply through me.

Steve Clarke

Craske Family Search

I've been having some fun over the last few days chasing the Craske family of Glemsford and Leigh (Lancashire) around the Censuses and elsewhere, partly because Alan Bell asked me if I knew anything, and partly because there is a slight link to the Brown family, of whom, as we all know, there were many in Glemsford - 144 in 1901.

At one stage of my search I remembered having contact, back in 2004,with Sandra Farrimond, who was researching a separate (but related) branch of the Craskes. The email address I have doesn't work any more, so, if Sandra wants to, a quick note to me could put her and Alan in touch with each other.

Meanwhile, just for general interest, these notes appear in Glemsford School logbooks:


26 July 1897

The attendance officer having obtained date of Julia Craske's birth, her name has been removed from the books, as she will not be three years old until December next. She had made 11 attendances, and these will be subtracted from the total for the quarter.

20 October 1897

Finding that a false date of birth was sent when Arthur Craske was admitted on the 16th of July last, his name has been removed from the register, as he will not be 3 years old until Dec. 3rd. His attendance will be deducted from the totals at the end of the quarter.

17 December 1897

Attendance a little improved this week, three or four children who have had Measles being allowed to return. Arthur Craske, aged 3 years was admitted yesterday afternoon.

21 February 1902

Kate and Muriel Craske left school to-day, on account of the removal of their parents to Lancashire.

Kate, Muriel and Julia were the daughters of Charles Craske and Kate (nee Bird), while Arthur was the son of Mark and Adelaide (nee Hartley). Charles and Mark were the sons of Thomas and Georgeanna (Georgina, Georgianna). George Craske (an older brother of Mark and Charles) was married to Joanna Maria (nee Brown) and was already living in Leigh, Lancashire by 1901.

So, another Lancashire: Glemsford connection, to go with the travels of another branch of the Brown family, researched last year, and written up on these pages.

If anyone has further details, or questions ...

Celebrity Status

Many of us have been fascinated by the "Who Do You Think You are?" series on the dear old beeb, and particularly by Clive Paine's revelations about Mr Paxman's humble Suffolk roots.
The fact that members of the family travelled north in the middle of the 19th Century, almost as part of an enforced migration, is interesting in itself.
But the Glemsford censuses reveal several other examples of a somewhat similar movement later in the Century.
Skerton, part of Lancaster, in Lancashire was one town that received migrants from Glemsford (and other Suffolk towns, like Lavenham) some time in the 1870s. "Matting weavers" are to be found on the 1881 Census for that area, on Earl Street and Lune Street.
Families such as Brown, Debenham and Middleditch can be identified - they were in Glemsford in 1871, in Skerton in 1881 and (mostly) back in Suffolk by1891. There were, apparently, 2 matting factories in Skerton at that time.
Why and how the families moved , and why they mostly returned, would make a fascinating historical study.
Anybody up for it?
Oh, and the Brown family involved can be read about in more detail here:

A Suttle Question

Rose Sillett has a question, aimed at Janet Jarmin, but which others may be able to help with, too:

"I understand that you may have some information on the name of Suttle. My Grandfather Wilfred Suttle was born in 1898 and died aged 35 yrs, due to malaria caught whilst serving in W.W.1.He had 2 brothers (possibly 3) and a sister.His father was David b.1863.and his father John b. 1831 married to Hannah b. 1834. My grandfather's brother who was his best man at his wedding on Aug.4th 1924 to Ada Brown at the Parish church Glemsford. Was in the W.W.1 but what happened ?
That's all I know.....Rose."

So: can anyone help?

The child who would be "King"?

In the course of sorting through the various Censuses for Glemsford, I've run across a number of people with the given name "King". Among these have been Browns and Gridleys.
Does anyone have any idea where such a name sprang from - other than natural Glemsford feelings of superiority, of course?